Episode 11: What Menstrual Cycle Awareness Has To Do With Female Sexuality
Did you know that female desire is cyclic? In this episode, Claire chats with sex and relationship coach Melissa Vranjes about the powerful intersection between menstrual cycles and sexuality. Melissa shares how discovering her cycle patterns revolutionised her intimate life and personal relationships, and how this shows up in her work with clients.
Listen in to hear how tracking your cycle can transform sexual experiences, enhance communication with partners, and help women understand their changing desires throughout the month. Far from being just about biology, they explore how cycle awareness creates permission to embody different sexual archetypal energies week to week — from wild and primal to soft and receptive.
Melissa brings her trademark playfulness and honesty to topics like period sex (spoiler: it doesn't have to be about blood), responsive desire versus spontaneous desire, and how to communicate changing needs to partners.
Whether you're experiencing shifts in libido, curious about bringing more cycle wisdom to your relationships or work with clients, or simply want to understand your sexual rhythms better, this conversation offers practical insights and permission to explore.
Resources and Links:
About Melissa Vranjes:
Melissa is an internationally Certified Sex and Relationship Coach based in New Zealand. She is deeply passionate about guiding women to feel sexually free, alive, turned on and confident in the bedroom! She has supported thousands of women to step past the fear and shame that sex brings and feel unbounded with the possibility of their sexuality and relationships. (edited)
Instagram: @melissavranjes
Website: www.melissavranjes.com
BJ Like A Boss Workshop: learn more
Stay connected:
Cycle Coach School Website: www.cyclecoachtraining.com
Cycle Coach Instagram: @cyclecoachschool
Claire's Instagram: @_clairebaker_
Claire's Website: www.clairebaker.com
Lauren's Instagram: @laurenoliviahughes
Lauren's Website: www.findingjulian.com
Melissa Vranjes (00:00)
If we can communicate with them and teach them what's actually happening for us in our body, what that means emotionally, physically, psychologically, they can support us to thrive. They can support us to feel amazing in our body. They can support us when we're going through the little psycho wobbles and they're that ear to hear us.
I think when we get to share our cycle experience with someone that we love, it only deepens your relationship.
Claire Baker (00:33)
Welcome to the Cycle Coach Show.
Lauren Olivia Hughes (00:38)
Empowering Conversations on Menstrual Cycle Coaching.
Claire Baker (00:43)
We're your hosts, Claire Baker.
Lauren Olivia Hughes (00:47)
Olivia Hughes.
Lauren Olivia Hughes (00:59)
Welcome back to the Cycle Coach show. This is Lauren and I have the pleasure of introducing our next episode between my co-host, Claire Baker and the magnetic, Melissa Vranjes Mel is a certified holistic sex and relationship coach. She's also one of our alumni from Cycle Coach school. So we had some really beautiful insights and stories around how menstrual cycle awareness weaves into our sexuality and our experience in our bodies.
I would have loved to have been a part of this conversation, but both women are in the Southern Hemisphere and I'm not, so I had to just listen in like you all will shortly. I really enjoyed hearing about cycle charting the libido and just noticing how our bodies evolve over that monthly cycle that we're all experiencing. I also enjoyed hearing Mel talk about how to communicate with your partner and how to
kind of enter these more intimate sessions with curiosity and compassion for each other versus performance and anxiety and fear perhaps. This conversation feels especially poignant and like on the nose for me. If you've listened to any other episodes from this season, then you'll know I am pregnant. I am in the longest term relationship I've ever been in. I'm married. So I think it'll be, it'll just be the longest whatever.
I am pregnant and in my third trimester and just in a very foreign body. And so this conversation feels like it's landing exactly when I need it. When Claire and I were together last summer in Oxford to record season one, we were also talking about sexuality then. It's a conversation if you hang out with Claire in person, it'll probably come around to sexuality. She's just such a bottle of wisdom herself. And I remember using the metaphor of entering
a dark room to explain how I felt about experimenting with my sexuality and just my sensuality in general. It's not only that I'm in a dark room and I don't know what's in there for me to explore, period. I also don't know where the light switch is. Where do you start to like start unpacking these things to have like the beautiful, healthy, vibrant sex life that you want to have? So this conversation between Claire and Mel felt...
like that first step that I needed. And so hopefully you're feeling the same after. It's just a bit more enlightened and inspired and excited. I don't know how I wasn't following Mel on Instagram before, but I am officially now and her account is absolutely iconic. It's just, it's so playful and fun and just makes everything feel so much more approachable and accessible. And the two of them do talk about it a bit, the humor she uses in this episode. So I will leave it there for now.
And I will let you enjoy this wonderful conversation between Claire and Mel.
Claire (03:52)
Before we dive into today's episode, I just want to let you know that enrolments for Cycle Coach School for 2025 are now officially open. This will be our seventh year running the training and it's for anyone feeling the call to guide, educate or support others.
through menstrual cycle awareness. The course begins on Tuesday, June the 24th of 2025 and spots always feel quickly. Since 2019, we've trained over 200 facilitators in 27 countries. And so if you would like to join us, you can see the full syllabus and apply at cyclecoachtraining.com. We would love to have you in the circle this year.
Claire Baker (04:39)
Mel, we begin all of our episodes at the Cycle Coach Show with a cycle check-in. So I'm really curious, whereabouts are you in your menstrual cycle today and how are you feeling?
Melissa (04:51)
I'm luteal I'm day 26, I believe. And I weirdly feel quite energized. Yesterday, not so much. But today, I feel energized and really like embodied. And I'm in that kind of like no BS. Like, let's just get straight to the point. Kind of energy. Yeah.
Claire Baker (05:12)
Ooh, I like it. How long
are your cycles usually? 31. Okay. So you're about five days away from bleeding. Me too, actually. I'm only on cycle day 20, but my cycles are about 26 days. So we're at a similar point actually. This could be interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Truth talking, which really is the perfect energy to go into a conversation all about.
Melissa (05:16)
31 days.
Mmm.
Yeah. Yeah, nice. I love that. Just truth-talking.
Claire Baker (05:37)
the menstrual cycle and how it intersects with relationships and sex. I've got so many questions for you, but I want to start by inviting you to share with our listeners who you are and what you do and how you came to this work.
Melissa (05:52)
Yeah, so I am a certified holistic sex and relationship coach and somatic therapist. And I came into this work really through my own curiosity. It was, I was 28, I did a workshop in Bali, good old Bali, Ubud. I had kind of like, where I was in my life is like, do I leave this relationship? Do I stay?
And I went to this workshop to kind of like find answers, but the answer that I actually got that in the workshop to give this context was called Understanding Sex. And it was all about female pleasure and connection. And the answer that I got was, wow, I'm 28 and I don't know that my pleasure is a priority, that sex doesn't need to be performative, that I don't need to fake orgasms anymore, that actually like,
I deserve to receive in the bedroom, not just give long answer, but it was just like, yeah, I think like a real light bulb moment for me. And what that kind of just kicked off my journey where I spent four years personally kind of traveling the world to understand about sex and relationships and explore myself and then turned it into a profession five years ago.
Claire Baker (07:02)
Hmm, incredible. And what does that look like today then?
Melissa (07:06)
Yeah, so I do lots of fun stuff. I work one-on-one with clients, which is so powerful. Love that work. I also do workshops. So I do a workshop called BJ Like a Boss, which is teaching women how to pleasure men through a female-focused lens. Very fun side of my business. I run...
other workshops all around, yeah, workshops, retreats, all that kind of stuff. I love getting people together, whether that's online or in person. Yeah.
Claire Baker (07:36)
Mel's Instagram is like one of my favorite accounts. Honestly, it's so good. You bring such a playful, authentic, and network gets overused, but it feels, it feels really real. The way that you talk about sex and pleasure and relationships and connection to self and connection to others. There's a series that you've done that I love so much on.
Melissa (07:49)
Mm.
Claire Baker (08:00)
like when you go vegetable shopping the next day after like making love the night before and like the zucchinis, like all these vegetables that remind you of the night before or this one where you're making bread and just like wrapping the apron around you, it like takes you back to the night before. I mean, you really need to see it. It's so good. And I just think that it really inspires me honestly, when I see
Melissa (08:02)
I'm sorry.
Hahaha
Claire Baker (08:26)
anyone, any facilitators, women working for themselves, creating businesses and really doing it in a way that allows your like true essence to really come through because I really feel you in what you share online and particularly in the realm of sex and intimacy, which can bring up a lot of shame for people. It's really clouded in a lot of stigma, just like the menstrual cycle. And so it can be tough sometimes to find your voice.
Melissa (08:53)
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, so interesting as you say this, because when I first started my business and I, know, all the facilities and teachers that I had very grounded, very like, I had a few teachers who would swear and stuff and I always felt drawn to them because I'm like, can, I can relax a bit. When I first started my business, I'm like, I've got to be serious so that people take me seriously. And I feel like many people go through this. It's like, I've got to be the serious person.
Claire Baker (08:54)
What's that been like for you?
Melissa (09:20)
But it felt so constricted. And as I start, was like, but I love joking around. I love having fun. And I don't just need to keep that for my personal Instagram. I can bring that to my business account as well. And I slowly did. And I definitely came up against edges of like, my God, are people just going to think I'm stupid? Like, are they just going to laugh but not feel inspired or motivated? So it's absolutely been a journey of like, fuck it.
This is me and people are still going to receive amazing education and motivation and feel inspired when I do these funny reels every now and again.
Claire Baker (09:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it looks like you're having a great time. And I imagine it feels like easy, easier work than if you were trying to put on a certain persona that you imagine, you know, might be appropriate that, you know, these imagined personas that we make up. So good. And so in 2021, you came in and took the training with us at Cycle Coach School. And I'm really curious. This is really what I want to get into today is
Melissa (10:07)
I know. Yeah, I agree.
Claire Baker (10:21)
Why do you think integrating menstrual cycle awareness into a practice of working with people on relationships and sex and intimacy? Like, why is it so important? I know this is a big one so we can start broad and then zone in. But I'd love to hear you riff on it. Yeah.
Melissa (10:35)
Yeah, yeah, I'm like... Yeah.
I mean, so many reasons, you know, like, I'm just like, where do we want to go with this? I think number one, when, as we know, our cycle affects our whole being, moods, food desires, our sexual desire. And obviously that's the bit that I focus on. When we are in relationship with someone, they are also meeting those parts of ourselves throughout our cycle. So if we can, number one, communicate with them and teach them
what's actually happening for us in our body, what that means like emotionally, physically, psychologically, they can support us to thrive. They can support us to feel amazing in our body. They can support us when we're going through the little cycle wobbles and they're that ear to hear us, whatever that looks and feels like for you. But I think
When we get to share our cycle experience with someone that we love, it only deepens your relationship. And I've personally felt that in my life, when I started educating Steve, I mean, he had never been in a relationship where someone was like, I'm bleeding and what that means is X, Y, Z. He was just like, whoa, okay, yep, cool. When we have that clear communication of not just telling them what's happening, but saying, and...
this is what I would need from you. Is that something you could offer me? That's when it becomes something that's like a collaboration. There's unity in that as well, rather than I feel miserable, I'm in my luteal phase, or I feel miserable, I'm bleeding. And they're like, okay, what do I do with that?
Claire Baker (12:12)
Yeah. Yeah. What I hear you speaking to, and this is something I wrote down before we started talking, is the, the full like embodiment of ourselves, the full expression, the full spectrum that menstrual cycle awareness allows women to, to really get to know and to get to, to live. Like when we start to learn about these four different phases of our cycle and how.
our hormones will shape how we might feel on a certain day and how we're going to show up and the different archetypes that we might be expressing or the challenges, the shadows, the joys. You know, we sometimes joke in these spheres that we can feel like a different person from week to week. And it can feel like this, that there are definitely different parts of our being that we're expressing. What a gift to bring your partner along on that journey because you know, your partner...
you know, it loves you and adores you and wants to get to know you. so menstrual cycle awareness, I really see like, is like a portal through to really show someone your full self. Now that can be tough, because then maybe parts in our being that we don't feel great about and a question I get a lot and I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on this is
Melissa (13:17)
Yeah.
Claire Baker (13:28)
women feeling as if they're, and I'll say male partner here, although this may also happen in same sex relationships, but that the men in a life doesn't appreciate their luteal self, their premenstrual self, or even their menstrual self as much as that ovulatory or even preovulatory self, right? So the difference between the follicular phase and the luteal phase, feeling as if they're,
partner isn't as in full support of, I don't really want to get to know that, let's say darker aspect of the self. What do you think about this?
Melissa (14:00)
I mean, I get excited talking about this because I'm like, first of all, my question is like, but are we are we holding back a bit or are we communicating? Hey, I feel like a miserable old woman right now. And like what I need from you is XYZ or like, can you just witness me in the state of like, and for me, Steve,
We've got to the point now where I just get short and I'm just like, get annoyed easy at him where I'm just like, yuck. I've got the yuck, you know, just in these little things where, and right now, like after we've spoken about it, he will say to me, like, where are you in your cycle? And I'll say, good point. Like I could feel that I was getting a bit annoyed there or whatever. So he'll kind of just call it out, which I kind of enjoy because it drops me into like.
the awareness of it as well. Now there's a point of like, sometimes he won't say anything, he'll just hold space. He won't say, where are you in your cycle? He'll just say, it feels like you need a bit of space. I'm gonna go to my room and you can, and I'm like, thanks babe. And so it's just like, the more we actually open up to how we're feeling and what we need, the more our partners in the long run are able just to hold that space.
without like needing to fix it. If you are in heterosexual relationship, men wanna fix, you know? They're wired to fix. I just think the more, it's almost like educating, teaching and sharing what you need in the moment over and over again. So you get to a place of, hey, I'm noticing this. I'm gonna do this for you. Does that feel okay?
Claire Baker (15:35)
Yeah, the self-awareness really needs to come first, right? Yeah, because then we know who we are in different phases or on different days of our cycle, what our needs are, where our strengths lie, when we need space from our partner. And it's so practical as well. Like I was thinking about the ways that menstrual cycle awareness benefits my romantic relationship. And it's also just...
Melissa (15:38)
Yes! Yeah!
Yeah.
Claire Baker (16:02)
very helpful to be able to explain, especially to a male partner, if your partner is male and you're female, the differences in your body's needs. Like I need at some times in the month much more sleep than at other times. And so that's really helpful to be able to communicate that to the person who I sleep next to every single night. That can change the way that we structure our mornings or our evenings. Same with things like fasting, for example, like my partner really loves fasting and that's something that
Melissa (16:10)
Mm.
Claire Baker (16:30)
You know, I can't really join him in with, do like to try to do a lot of healthy things together, but I know for my body that there are very limited times in my cycle actually when fasting is helpful for my system. So even just those practical differences between male and female bodies, the different kinds of foods that you might like to have in the house that might be more relevant to you and less so for your partner, alcohol, caffeine, for example, these are generally things that
Melissa (16:46)
Yes.
Claire Baker (16:57)
affect the female body a bit differently at different times than the male body. So it can get very, very practical, as well as, like you say, deeply connecting and very emotional and very beautiful to be able to bring your partner particularly into those more vulnerable times. I wonder what you think about libido because
Melissa (16:58)
Mm.
Yes. Yeah, I love that.
Mmm.
Claire Baker (17:22)
This is something else that I get asked about and I imagine in your work this is probably a common question from female clients working with women around differences in libido maybe if they're in a heterosexual relationship and how this intersects with the menstrual cycle.
Melissa (17:35)
Yeah.
Hmm. Libido, honestly, I find such a big topic because a lot of women will say, I've got a low libido. And I'm like, cool. How's that showing up for you? What does that actually look like? And honestly, sometimes, actually a lot of the time, what's actually happening is they're not having sex with going back for over and over again. So their desire is dropping. So it's not actually a low libido. It's that they're not experiencing a lot of pleasure in the bedroom. Their motivation for sex is like zero. Other people are getting libido confused with like desire, responsive desire. It's like, well, I'm not just feeling horny all the time. It's like, that's normal actually. It's actually really normal that you're not feeling horny all the time. So I just wanted to preface that a little bit around libido because it is a big topic. And I think a lot of people, women especially, think I've got no libido.
But let's just look at the type of sex that you're having. Is it worth going back for over and over again? Are you just responsive desire rather than spontaneous desire? And then when we're looking at libido, it really stems or governs from our hormone health. So a big question is like, are you supporting your hormones? What does that look like? What does hormone nourishment look like?
It's not just a libido tablet. It's not just a quick toy that's going to instantly get your libido back. There are multiple things that you need to be doing in order to get your libido back. I can't remember what the question was. Did you say libido back in the cycle?
Claire Baker (19:13)
Yeah, I'm curious about this connection between the libido and the menstrual cycle and particularly around this question of low libido, which you've done a really great job of defining.
Melissa (19:18)
Thanks.
Yeah, so I think libido in the cycle, we know that hormones are ever changing throughout the cycle and there are absolutely peaks when there's testosterone which can spike and help our libido. If that isn't happening for you and you feel like you are flat all cycle long, flat as in you have no spark.
of arousal, even when you touch yourself, it's just like, nah, nothing's happening. I feel dead down there. I think that's when it's time to really look at your cycle, look at your hormone health, start to understand what's actually happening in your body, how you're caring for your body and your hormones. What can be fun is when you, I know you mentioned mismatched libido as well, which I would love to speak into, remind me to pull back to that as well.
Yeah, I think when we can look at our cycle, it's such a great place to go, wow, I'm experiencing like what you taught me in the chart of like writing down day by day, we're thinking, what we're feeling, what we're experiencing in the body. That gives you information for what is happening in your hormones. Yeah, if you're writing something, if you're writing constantly down that you're experiencing pain, you feel moody all the time, even in
areas which I feel really careful to say this, like where not you should, but you could be experiencing like some really beautiful openings and you know, I'm careful to just go in your ovulation time, you should be feeling like this because everyone's so different. I think actually writing down or tracking on an app can give you information as to why your libido is low if it is just a hormonal thing rather than a relationship.
six then.
Claire Baker (21:01)
Mm, mm, yeah, beautiful. And again, the power of cycle charting and of knowing yourself. And I would say for anybody listening, if this is resonating and you feel like this is an area of your makeup, your sexuality, your eros that you'd like to explore further, then take that into your daily cycle charting. So often we teach the four bodies, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual.
as places to start your cycle charting journey. But you can take any aspect of your life into that. It could be sex, it could be money, it could be like colors of clothes that you like to wear at different times. Like it really can be so creative and particularly with something like sex that I guess can come under that physical banner. It really can be its own category. So exploring.
Melissa (21:44)
Hmm.
great.
Claire Baker (21:50)
as you've described, like exploring how does it feel on different days of your cycle to touch yourself? Or are there certain desires that emerge at different times? Are you more up for it more quickly at other times? Does it take you a lot longer to sort of get into the mood? Like, do you think about sex a lot on some days or other other days that it doesn't even cross your mind? Like there's so much to play with. That can be, you know, your entire charting practice. And I love the idea of experiementing
Melissa (22:05)
you
Claire Baker (22:18)
be ramenting with something like sex and intimacy and eros, really three months, 90 days to really commit to doing something like that. Like what could emerge?
Melissa (22:19)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
my gosh, so much. And honestly, on this topic, I learned so much about myself. So I added the sex stuff when we were doing the coaching program. I added in the sex because I was working in that field already. And what I found blew my mind. You know, it was like, can orgasm so much quicker in that first half of my cycle. And what I need in my luteal phase is long,
ass foreplay. And when I could communicate that to Steve and being like, Hey babe, I'm in my luteal phase. Boom. He knew what that meant. I didn't have to keep going. I need more foreplay. I need more foreplay. I didn't feel broken because it's like, I'm just at a different part of my cycle. How can I work with that? When I'm ovulating, it's like, all right, let's like, I know that I'm probably going to initiate more.
And it's just so fun to feel those different sexual expressions of yourself. And again, like what we were talking about, bring your partner in that journey as well. makes sex so much better.
Claire Baker (23:23)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
I mean, what you're describing, there are studies to back this up too, right? That it is actually easier for women to climax at around ovulation. And from a reproductive perspective, it also makes a lot of sense to, that that would be the time that we would really want to be having sex and getting to climax. it's like, I love that idea that it can happen.
could be in deep pleasure in all phases of your cycle, but the path to getting there might look a bit different. The experience could look really different. And I love that. I think that's so cool that we get to have all of these different experiences of sensuality and pleasure week to week.
Melissa (24:05)
Me too,
yes. Yeah, it makes it exciting. We get bored otherwise. You know, genuinely get bored if you were going down the same route every single time, which is why people also lure libido because it's like, you having boring sex? You know, but as a woman, it's like, oh, I'm in my ex phase. I'm going to explore foreplay in this way, or I'm going to explore initiating in this way, or.
Claire Baker (24:09)
⁓ Mm, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Melissa (24:28)
I'm going to explore sex with myself in this way. Like there's just so many different avenues that you can actually use cycle awareness information to your advantage in the bedroom.
Claire Baker (24:39)
I just really wish that more practitioners who work with women and certainly who work with couples in relationships had this kind of intel because I feel like I have found myself educating my therapists, whether it's been a couples therapist or whether it's been a therapist that I've worked with myself, coaches on this topic because it just, feels so integral. Do you think that it's...
Melissa (24:52)
Mmm.
Claire Baker (25:02)
I mean, from your observations of the industry, do you think it's changing our moral therapists in relationship coaches becoming more aware of how important this is or not?
Melissa (25:11)
I want to say, I hope so, but I am yet to say, and I'm the same as you, I mean, I have a therapist, a couple's therapist, and there's no way we've touched on the cycle. There's no way yet it impacts so much of our relationships. If you're having arguments at the same time of your cycle every single month, let's go deeper. If you only feel desire during ovulation or at certain time.
Melissa (25:37)
and you want to feel at other times, let's go deeper. How can we make that happen? But yeah, I'm afraid I don't see a big change in therapists. Maybe, yeah, maybe in the more embodied somatic practitioners, but yeah, I hope so.
Claire Baker (25:41)
Hmm.
Yeah, me too. I hope so too. Yeah. And for anyone listening who does work in that space, I think it can be as simple as providing your client or clients be working with a couple with it with a chart, a menstrual cycle chart. There's many free available online. You can download one from my website and give it to your client and just invite them to chart how
again, relating to the specifics of the relationship, like you say, are there arguments coming up at certain times? Like what does, yeah, ovulation look like? What does the pre-ovulatory phase menstrual phase in your relationship look like? And just to be really curious and the trust the client, because I think sometimes often practitioners feel like they have to be an expert on, the reproductive system in order to chat with their client about this stuff. And I found that whenever I brought it up with a therapist or a coach,
they're actually like, I mean, I mostly work with women to be fair, but I feel like they're pretty open to chatting about it, but I'm always the one who initiates it. And so I think. Yeah. Like your client is going to know their body really well, actually, even if they don't think that they do, they'll be surprised, you know, and this is what we teach at the school. It's like.
really trust your client and give them the space to tell you what they do know about their body and about how their relationship changes in different, you know, phases in their menstrual cycle because that can be so empowering as well for someone to sit across from you and to share with you what they observed. And then like you say, to go deeper then into that. So you don't need to be a reproductive expert. However, you can really listen to your client and give them a chance to tell you what it's like to be in a female body, what it's like to be someone who has a menstrual cycle, who's in a relationship because there's so much to learn from that place.
Melissa (27:45)
So much and meeting it with curiosity, not making anything right or wrong. Like if you're not experiencing peak desire during ovulation when the textbook says, doesn't mean anything's wrong with you. Like meeting every little bit of cycle information with compassion and curiosity is what will change the game, I think, rather than like, why isn't this happening? Why isn't that happening?
Claire Baker (28:08)
Yeah, yeah, curiosity, so, so, so important. And to allow it to change as well from that place, like, it may have been in the past that you and your partner related in a particular way in a particular phase, or that you felt a certain way in X phase, and to allow that to change as well.
Melissa (28:10)
Mm. Yeah.
Claire Baker (28:27)
This is also about bringing your partner along for the journey. It's not static. And I think sometimes men would love it if it was like, here's the blueprint. Here's how to interact with me. Here's the map. It's never going to change. Unfortunately, well, not unfortunately, but the reality is that it does and that it will. And so also to be curious about about how it might change too.
Melissa (28:38)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah, and there's beauty in change. You know, there is, there, I love, now that I'm a mum, you know, my cycle has changed and who I am and I've got limited time and sex has changed. Again, I've got limited time, you know, and like myself, pleasure practice has changed. But it's been amazing to move and mold with the changes and meet another layer of my cycle self in motherhood as well. I think it's so cool, these different.
women that show up during our cycle and throughout our lifetime as well. And that's something that you taught me in that big sheet that we did, like the different, I can't even, yeah, yeah, that was so cool of like the different archetypes that come throughout our lifetime. And I think it's the same in our sexual lifetime as well.
Claire Baker (29:26)
It's like a wisdom map. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, archetypes are really fun thing to play with as well. Like, what would it be like to really embody like the dark feminine enchantress when you're in your luteal phase and to just really get into your animal and like be wild and messy, you know, in comparison to like the sweet innocence of the, you know, of the maiden and that blossoming energy, like how can you bring that into intimacy as well? It's up to your bleed ends and there's that really like tender.
Melissa (29:50)
Yes.
Claire Baker (30:05)
um, energy that can feel so different. Again, these flavors that keep, eros and aliveness, like, you know, fueling, fueling your sexual connection. This is something that I definitely noticed for me in my journey is that menstrual cycle awareness, particularly I would say like really going into my bleed and learning how to really rest and be with, be with that energy.
Melissa (30:14)
Hmm
Claire Baker (30:30)
opened up like this erotic channel in my system and I feel like it really awakened something that was already always there of course but I feel like I really you know got to feel it in a big way and this is something I also get asked about and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on is like how do we bring if this is somebody else's you know other people's experience which I hear that it can be for women that connecting with their bleed can really open up this channel
Like how do we bring that bigness to our partners as well? Like, it can feel very vulnerable too, to like bring this, you know, this erotic aliveness that we might feel in our self pleasure practice, for example, and we might be becoming more familiar with it in that way. But then to, you know, I feel like it's so courageous to then show our partners that side of ourselves.
Melissa (31:01)
and
Yeah.
Yeah,
I completely agree. for me, as you were saying that it's like grounding safety in the nervous system. It's safe for me to bring my erotic power, my erotic vitality, my aliveness in the bedroom. My partner can hold all of me. My partner wants to see my erotic aliveness. You know, it's like
really bringing in that safety in your nervous system to fully express yourself and truly and deeply believe that your partner can hold you and wants to see you, knows how to witness you. Because if you're already experiencing it by yourself, it's there, it's alive, and it's just trusting that you can open up to your partner. And maybe it's a conversation of, babe, I've been experiencing like this deep, erotic aliveness in me and my pleasure practices and...
You know, part of me actually feels really nervous to share that with you, but I really want to bring her into the bedroom. What I think I would need for me to fully open up is like when I do roar or when I do like whatever it is, when I'm just like, yeah, I was just about to really unleash that. Whatever it is, I just, I don't want to feel any judgment from you. Maybe even like, yes, babe, I love that.
You know, it's like giving your partner some tools that would allow you to fully express yourself. Because if a man or a woman has never felt that or witnessed that from a woman, they're not gonna want to, they're not gonna know what to do with that. And that's totally fine. You know, if someone brings something new to us, we're only gonna be able to intuitively work with it. But if we can go and say to our partners,
could you hold me in this way that would allow me to XYZ, fully open up, express myself, roar, sound, whatever it is. I think that's when it's just like, okay, I feel ready. There's safety there, there's trust, there's tools. It's time to unleash.
Claire Baker (33:10)
I would love to see you unleash. I could see you
gearing up. Yeah, I found a lot of...
Melissa (33:13)
Yeah.
Claire Baker (33:17)
found like being with other women in like in women's circles women only so female only spaces where I could play with some of that like sounding and moving my hips and you know and grounding and not necessarily you know in erotic spaces you know simply just being in spaces where that like energy is is able to be present and it's it's welcomed and it feels like a safe place
That was helpful for me to also be able to then take that to my partner. Love that you say to that. It's okay if you feel a bit nervous about it and it's okay if your partner is also a little unsure at first as well because it's new. And this has been a recurrent theme actually on the podcast this season is like giving each other grace, particularly our beloveds and allowing like space and time and patience and a good faith actually that
you know, our partners want the best for us and that they want to see all sides to us, even when it feels vulnerable on both sides. That can be tricky, but it can really alchemize a relationship and fortify and like you say, bring in new flavors and fun that fuel your connection.
Melissa (34:32)
I think there's no better feeling than starting to unravel these parts of ourselves, the scary, nervous parts of ourselves and revealing them to our partners in the bedroom. And knowing that sex is messy and we're all kind of unsure, myself included, I've been doing this for eight years, you know? It's like, it gets to be weird and wonderful and clunky and vulnerable and nerve wracking, you know? That's like...
When we get to be vulnerable together, it only deepens the connection if we're in the right relationship. You know, it's just like, wow, I got to express all of myself to you or share this part of myself to you. And to witness that, to see your partner in vulnerability is so freaking beautiful.
Claire Baker (35:05)
Mm-hmm.
Which leads me really sweetly into my next question, speaking about mess and vulnerability, which is period sex and having like being intimate in menstruation. Again, something I hear a lot from women, often conflicting feelings about this, perhaps a desire to explore and experiment, but there may be shame.
Melissa (35:32)
Mm.
Claire Baker (35:38)
or past experiences that weren't encouraging and supportive that are still creating blocks and partners who aren't interested in exploring like menstrual sexual play. So yeah, I'd love to hear what you have to say about this one.
Melissa (35:54)
Yeah,
I think there's two parts of it. think so the first for me and you know, this is a personal experience where I think a big part of like opening up my relationship or to Steve to period sex, there was such a big focus on blood and it's like, okay, it's period sex, it's like blood sex and it's like, what would happen if
Obviously there's going to be blood there, but what about if we took the focus off the blood part and took it into this is where I feel like a connection and I'm feeling really like tender in this part of my cycle and to be penetrated by you or to be touched by you or loved by you would like really bring me into my body or XYZ. So I think something and, and doing that not in a way of avoiding blood because there's shame around or stigma around that, but it's like,
Yeah, is there a part of us that cannot necessarily focus on like bleeding sex? And it's like, what would that experience give you or allow you to feel connection, pleasure, aliveness, tenderness, X, Y, So I think there's that part and a little like mind shift. And then I think there's also the part of it that's like, we're bringing something to our partners and if they genuinely feel a know in their bodies and it's
trying to not take that personally. And this is with anything in sex, you know, we could go to our partners and say, hey, I want to explore butt play. And they're like, well, okay, that feels like new for me. And it's okay to let them sit with the idea for a while and not make it mean anything. I think so often as women who bleed and our partners are like, that feels like a no for me. And it's going cool.
I don't need to be a yes right now. don't even need to be yes in a month's time, but just sit with it because connecting with you at that time of my month would make me feel X, Y, Z, but I understand.
then I think there's a part of it that's like, cool, if we're both on board, how could we make this experience something that's like sexy and connective and fun and pleasurable for both of us? What would that look like in a practical sense? Is it going to the shower? Is it putting down a splash blanket. Is it using a condom so that your partner doesn't have that feeling of like blood on his genitals? Is it, you know, it's just thinking like, cool, let's like.
workshop this a little bit, what would make it feel good for you? And I'm open to anything. And you ask the question, what would make it feel good for you? Cool, it would make me feel good if we do X, Y, Z. And then you're both going into that experience of like, cool, we've kind of got a strategy here. I know that you're open to it. We've got communication already because we've discussed the strategy. So during sex, it kind of opens up those lines of communication and just going in.
And it's so much easier said than done, but trying to like let go of, no, what are they going to think? Oh no, there's blood there. It's just like, actually sex is messy. And like, there's always fluid in sex, whether that's blood fluid, whether that's, part urine, whether that's like ejaculation, it's all good. This is just another fluid. Can I let go? So yeah, I think there's a few parts to opening up to period sex.
Claire Baker (39:03)
Mmm.
Yeah, I love what you've said at the very beginning that it doesn't necessarily even have to involve blood at all because of course, you know, I've never thought about it like this, but of course there is sex, there is intimacy and connection that can happen that doesn't even involve having to even take your underwear off like at all.
Melissa (39:13)
Yeah.
Yes!
Claire Baker (39:30)
Yeah, that feels really liberating, honestly, you know, to think about it like that. And when you were describing the, you know, the practicalities, because it is quite practical, you know, getting some of this in place to so that it feels good for everybody involved. How again, this can strengthen our relationship and create sense of safety and in reinforced trust.
And also to have a bit of a laugh about it as well, about the chaos and the mess. And that's going to apply to life. We're always navigating all kinds of messes without partners in life. And I love how sex can really help us to work on those parts that we also can then take into the rest of our relationship as well.
Melissa (39:57)
Yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah, and it gets to be fun. Even though it can feel really vulnerable if you're the one who's bleeding, it still gets to be fun. Sex is fun, sex is playful, sex is vulnerable. And again, I think this has been a thread in our conversation is when we are vulnerable together, when we're exploring new things together, it only deepens that love and connection and exploration together.
Claire Baker (40:19)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
I'm curious what advice you would give to, we've a lot of people who listen to this show who have already been through the training, who are working as menstrual cycle coaches, so working with women with the female body, and maybe they have clients coming to them with questions around sex or noticing different things coming up in their relationship that are happening at different points in the cycle.
What advice would you give to somebody who wanted to go deeper with their clients on some of these topics, but perhaps isn't necessarily trained as a relationship and sexuality practitioner, but wants to be able to, you know, to welcome these kinds of conversations in client sessions?
Melissa (41:12)
Mmm.
Yeah, I mean, I think a big one is communication. Like if you are a practitioner and someone's coming to you with sexuality challenges, you know, what you mentioned of like 90 days of charting your sex mood or desires and things like that, I think that's a great place to start. Then you're not put straight on the spot, especially if you don't have experience of like, God, I've got to fix their sex issues now as well as like support them with their menstrual cycle challenges.
I think it's putting it back onto them and say, Hey, I'm really keen to support you with this. Should we bring in like the category of sex for the next 90 days and start having a conversation about what you're noticing and allow them to tell you what they're noticing and just asking a simple question of like, what do you make it? What do you make of that? Like, what does that mean for you? What is it? And it's just asking questions to allow them to make it mean something. And then offering simple tools like.
Have you communicated this? Have you shared a desire around this? I don't think you need to fix their relationship problems or their sex issues. It's just more like putting it back onto them to explore that part of themselves and bringing in communication tools.
Claire Baker (42:32)
Is there a point or are there any things that people should look for that might indicate that that person actually does need a referral onto, you to somebody like yourself who is trained in sexuality?
Melissa (42:42)
Yeah, I think if they're experiencing sexual pain for sure, if they're feeling like deeply unsatisfied in the bedroom and they're charting, they're like, I don't know what that means. And I'm just still feeling stuck and I'm still feeling if they're there, then I think referring them on as well. Sexual pain, feeling stuckness, they can't make out what is going on for them. If they're feeling like their libido isn't changing for them, I think referring out, yeah.
Claire Baker (43:10)
Yeah, beautiful. I mean, this is something that, as we've said a few times here, is naturally going to arise for a lot of clients who are beginning to work with their menstrual cycle, who are beginning to learn how to settle their nervous systems, to explore rest and pleasure through the body. Then, yeah, it's going to awaken and move in new ways and...
If we can hold a really non-judgmental, curious and open space where, like you say, we're asking open-ended questions and we're inviting the client to do their own research and bring it back to us on their own body and we can have open conversations, then it's incredible what can emerge. Yeah.
Melissa (43:50)
you
Yeah, I agree. And I think the beauty of this work is that most people are having sex, you know? So if you're a practitioner and you've either had sex before or you self-pleasure, there's an embodiment there. You can kind of, same as cycles, you know? It's like, if I'm a female body supporting another female body, I have some kind of awareness around their experience, not the totality of it, just an awareness. So I think that, you know, bring your own personal
Claire Baker (44:02)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa (44:23)
experience to it as well through a non-projective lens.
Claire Baker (44:24)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And as you were just talking then I was thinking and we'll begin to wrap up, but being in this space of menstrual cycle coaching and supporting women through this work, there's already like, you know, a trust, a deep trust that can emerge because there's not many spaces that, you know, females can go and speak so intimately with a practitioner about their menstrual cycle. And so yeah, this is definitely something that I've noticed is that space is really held and there's a lot of trust there. So it makes a lot of sense that another topic that has been shrouded in stigma and can hold a lot of shame for people will probably emerge at some point as well because you've built a beautiful trusting relationship where a topic that is usually completely off limits is front and center. And so naturally, yeah, something like sex and the Eros and intimacy is going to probably emerge in some way or another too.
Melissa (45:25)
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think they like work with one another, like your cycle can impact your sex life and your sex life, if you're not feeling met or you're feeling, yeah, let's just say not met, it's going to impact the mood of your cycle as well. So I think they beautifully like work and intertwine with one another.
Claire Baker (45:47)
I think we've covered everything that I had written down here. We've definitely crossed a few great, great topics and conversations. I don't think there's anything else for this conversation that I want to ask you, but I'm curious if there was something else that you wanted to add before we finish.
Melissa (46:04)
No, I feel like we've really swept up lots of topics here. Yeah, no, it feels good.
Claire Baker (46:09)
It feels really good. Thanks so much for having this conversation with me. I've loved it. This is a topic I could just talk about forever. And I really, like I said, at the very beginning of the episode, I just love the playful realness, the non-judgmental tone that you bring to this work. And I just really want to celebrate that. ⁓ I'd love to, yeah, give you the chance to tell people where they can find you.
Melissa (46:18)
Hmm.
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, the spot where I'm kind of dishing out all the free content is Instagram. That's at Melissa Vranjes I'm sure you'll pop that down below in show notes. But yeah, that's where I connect with most people and love it. Love connecting with people, love chatting. And sometimes I put up Q &A boxes where I can coach every now and again. yeah. Yeah, I've got another one. I've got a Bunnings one coming up.
Claire Baker (46:58)
Come and check out the vegetable the sexy vegetable videos. ⁓
My gosh Wow, I can only begin to imagine ⁓ My mind is already running up so good.
⁓ Thanks so much
Lauren Olivia Hughes (47:12)
Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Cycle Coach Show. If you loved what you heard, then please review, share and subscribe to help us reach more cyclical listeners like you. You can find us on Instagram at @cyclecoachschool or online at cyclecoachtraining.com.
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