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In this episode, Lauren is joined by fertility acupuncturists Katy Ewen and Hannah Pearn, whose refreshing approach to education has built a thriving online community and changed the way many people engage with conversations about fertility. Together, they explore how humour, authenticity, and collaboration have helped them educate thousands of people while building businesses that genuinely reflect who they are.

The conversation begins with the story of how Katy and Hannah's friendship started through Instagram, sparked by a shared love of making educational content that doesn't take itself too seriously. They reflect on how creating together has made marketing feel lighter, safer, and far more enjoyable than trying to do it alone, while also helping them reach more people with evidence-based fertility education.

Along the way, they discuss how humour can coexist with sensitive topics like fertility, IVF and reproductive health. Rather than diminishing the seriousness of these experiences, they explain how laughter can offer connection, hope, and moments of relief during what can often be an emotionally complex journey. They also reflect on how social media has become a powerful way for practitioners to educate the public, build trust, and create communities that extend far beyond the treatment room.

Whether you're a cycle coach, women's health practitioner, or simply someone who finds marketing uncomfortable, this episode is a refreshing reminder that you don't have to perform or pretend to build a meaningful business. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is simply show up as yourself.

Click play to discover how authenticity, collaboration, and a little bit of humour can transform both your business and the people you're here to serve.

Resources and Links:

Katy Ewens

Website: https://www.reflexeast.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reflex_east/?hl=en

Hannah Pearn:

Website: https://donttellmetorelax.co.uk/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donttellmetorelax/

Stay connected:

Cycle Coach School Website:www.cyclecoachtraining.com

Cycle Coach Instagram: @cyclecoachschool

Claire's Instagram:⁠⁠ @_clairebaker_

Claire's Website:⁠⁠www.clairebaker.com

Lauren's Instagram:⁠⁠@laurenoliviahughes

Lauren's Website:⁠⁠www.findingjulian.com

Lauren (00:53)

Amazing. Welcome to another episode of the Cycle Coach Show. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by two amazing women from the fertility industry. We have Katy Ewen, the owner of Reflex East, a Reflexology Clinic and Women's Health Mentoring Space in London, and Hannah Pern, an expert in fertility acupuncture and host of the award-winning fertility podcast, Don't Tell Me to Relax, who just wrapped up an incredible month

Katy | Reflex East (01:18)

Hello.

Lauren (01:19)

about men called Men in May, about men's fertility.

which I just think is so needed in this space. So welcome Hannah and Katy.

Hi.

Hannah Pearn (01:27)

Thank you.

Lauren (01:28)

Welcome, welcome. We love to start our episodes with

a cycle check-in. So I invite maybe I'll invite Katy to start us off. what cycle day are you and how is it feeling so far?

Katy | Reflex East (01:31)

I'm day 14. I'm usually a day 17 or a few later. So I'm good at the moment. I feel... Yeah, I was gonna say my energy is good. My energy is weird

Katy (01:41)

I'm day 14. I'm usually a day 17 or a few later. So I'm good at the moment. I feel... Yeah, I was gonna say my energy is good. My energy is weird because it's good, but I'm tired because of the way I'm recording just at the end of the May heatwave and I did not sleep well because of that. So yeah, I was glad for the cooler night last night and got a solid day hours. So yeah, good.

Lauren (02:08)

Thank you, Katy, for your cycle check-in. I yeah, the heat wave has been very intense and I'm happy that it's passing. Hannah, where are you in your cycle and how are you feeling?

Hannah Pearn (02:19)

It's a good question. I am perineal menopausal. So I have a long period of time without any cycle these days. So I am on, well, I also take HRT. So I kind of have a medicated cycle. So I am on about day 21, but I might not have a period at the end of it.

So it's

Lauren (02:42)

Mm.

Hannah Pearn (02:43)

a bit weird because my HRT tells me where I am in a cycle, but I might not necessarily have a period. So who knows?

Lauren (02:52)

Right. But cycle day twenty one, how is it how's it feeling? Like what kind of phase what did you compare it to?

Hannah Pearn (02:59)

Yeah, it's a funny one because I take HRT,

Lauren (03:02)

Mm.

Hannah Pearn (03:03)

it kind of keeps things quite steady. I never had any problems before I took HRT anyway. So I feel absolutely fine. Yeah, sometimes I might get...

I adjust before my period if I do have a period but generally HRT keeps me on even keel I would say.

Lauren (03:22)

Mm,

mm, yeah, I can relate. I'm currently ten and a half months postpartum. So my cycle

Hannah Pearn (03:28)

Yeah.

Lauren (03:29)

I don't know when it'll come back. But it's yeah, also feeling very like every day is kind of similar in many ways, but

Hannah Pearn (03:36)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katy & Hannah (03:38)

We've done our cycle check-ins.

Lauren (03:38)

We've done our cycle check-ins.

Katy & Hannah (03:40)

Now, I would love to start at the beginning and speak to both of you about how you started your businesses, what drew you to this world, because it seems so serendipitous at times of how people find their way to female health in this kind of realm. maybe, Katy once again, maybe do you want to start? How did you find reflexology?

Lauren (03:40)

Now, I would love to start at the beginning and speak to both of you about how you started your businesses, what drew you to this world, because it seems so serendipitous at times of how people find their way to female health in this kind of realm. maybe, Katy once again, maybe do you want to start? How did you find reflexology?

Katy & Hannah (04:01)

Yeah, so I had Reflexology when I was actually really quite young. I was about 14 when I first had it and it was actually purely to deal with anxiety. It took a long time but eventually got diagnosed with OCD but in that time where I didn't know what was going on and was having a very extreme anxiety, it really helped to kind of like take the edge off of that anxiety. I mean I was very reluctant and skeptical at first and I was like how's a foot rub going to help anything and came out converted.

Lauren (04:01)

Yeah, so I had Reflexology when I was actually really quite young, I was about 14 when I first had it and it was actually purely to deal with anxiety. It took a long time but eventually got diagnosed with OCD but in that time where I didn't know what was going on and was having a very extreme anxiety, it really helped to kind of like take the edge off of that anxiety. I mean I was very reluctant and sceptical at first and I was like how's a foot rub going to help anything and came out converted.

Katy & Hannah (04:31)

And yeah, then like many years later, decided to train in it and came to this kind of all women's health side of it because a couple of reasons. One, I needed feet to practice on and my girlfriend has quite bad endometriosis and through having to practice on people, realized it was really helping with some of her symptoms. And then my very first client was trying to get pregnant. And at that time I was like, I don't really know anything.

Lauren (04:31)

And yeah, then like many years later, decided to train in it and came to this kind of all women's health side of it because a couple of reasons. One, I needed feet to practice on and my girlfriend has quite bad endometriosis and through having to practice on people, realized it was really helping with some of her symptoms. And then my very first client was trying to get pregnant. And at that time I was like, I don't really know anything.

Katy & Hannah (05:00)

about this and kind of, yeah, just went down the rabbit hole and then never came back. Mm. Yeah, that's beautiful. And Hannah, how did you get into acupuncture for fertility? I had acupuncture to go into labor when I was pregnant with my daughter. I'd never had acupuncture before and I was going to be induced and someone said, go and try some acupuncture. It's really good for.

Lauren (05:00)

about this and kind of, yeah, just went down the rabbit hole and then never came back. Mm. Yeah, that's beautiful. And Hannah, how did you get into acupuncture for fertility? I had acupuncture to go into labor when I was pregnant with my daughter. I'd never had acupuncture before and I was going to be induced and someone said, go and try some acupuncture. It's really good for.

Katy & Hannah (05:28)

bringing labor on. So off I trotted, I had three appointments, I went into labor on my due date and I had a really straightforward, simple birth, which I was obviously really grateful for. And so I was blown away, absolutely blown away. I'd never gone into any form of complimentary medicine, didn't really know anything about it, but it really blew my socks off. So I retrained as an acupuncturist about two or three years later.

Lauren (05:28)

bringing labor on. So off I trotted, I had three appointments, I went into labor on my due date and I had a really straightforward, simple birth, which I was obviously really grateful for. And so I was blown away, absolutely blown away. I'd never gone into any form of complimentary medicine, didn't really know anything about it, but it really blew my socks off. So I retrained as an acupuncturist about two or three years later.

Katy & Hannah (05:57)

And really the reason I got into fertility and women's health is because they are the people that came through the door. And, you know, I've lived and worked in my community for a long time. I had small children when I was beginning out as an acupuncturist. So I had a lot of female connections anyway. And so I quickly realized I needed to specialize and get better in this one area, because as a general practitioner, you're treating anything from a shoulder to back pain, to painful periods. And I knew that I needed to...

Lauren (05:57)

And really the reason I got into fertility and women's health is because they are the people that came through the door. And, you know, I've lived and worked in my community for a long time. I had small children when I was beginning out as an acupuncturist. So I had a lot of female connections anyway. And so I quickly realized I needed to specialize and get better in this one area, because as a general practitioner, you're treating anything from a shoulder to back pain, to painful periods. And I knew that I needed to...

Katy & Hannah (06:25)

get more specialist information so I could have a lot of quality and knowledge to share with that group of people. So that's how it happened. And that's interesting touching on the complementary therapies because technically that's also the umbrella of cycle coaches. Working in what sometimes feels like a newer field, how did you find, this goes to both of you, how did you find sources? How did you find research and how did you feel like?

Lauren (06:25)

get more specialist information so I could have a lot of quality and knowledge to share with that group of people. So that's how it happened. And that's interesting touching on the complementary therapies because technically that's also the umbrella of cycle coaches. Working in what sometimes feels like a newer field, how did you find, this goes to both of you, how did you find sources? How did you find research and how did you feel like?

Katy & Hannah (06:54)

Find the confidence to be like a professional leader in an industry that's, you know, not always received by Western medicine per se. I mean, I'm laughing because I feel like for me it was through finding Hannah. I mean, I guess, yeah, we met via both of us essentially titting around on Instagram.

Lauren (06:54)

Find the confidence to be like a professional leader in an industry that's, you know, not always received by Western medicine per se. I mean, I'm laughing because I feel like for me it was through finding Hannah. I mean, I guess, yeah, we met via both of us essentially titting around on Instagram.

Katy & Hannah (07:20)

um, making silly reels and I'd like not long finished my reflexology training. I don't even do like practicing properly for like a year as a reflexologist. And I was just a bit like, I don't really know how I'm going to do this. And I was going to reach out to Hannah just to like, be like, do you do mentoring? Like, can I get some help? And then around a very similar time, got a message from Hannah being like, I'm looking for a reflexologist. Do you want to come have a chat? And I was like, yes.

Lauren (07:20)

um, making silly reels and I'd like not long finished my reflexology training. I don't even do like practicing properly for like a year as a reflexologist. And I was just a bit like, I don't really know how I'm going to do this. And I was going to reach out to Hannah just to like, be like, do you do mentoring? Like, can I get some help? And then around a very similar time, got a message from Hannah being like, I'm looking for a reflexologist. Do you want to come have a chat? And I was like, yes.

Katy & Hannah (07:49)

I really, really do. So I think for me, being within a team and like Hannah's team's grown massively since I joined like nearly five years ago and like having that support has been like a really big part of it and those connections and things, I think, yeah, for me anyway. And what about you, Hannah? Well, similar, similar situation in that I think, well,

Lauren (07:49)

I really, really do. So I think for me, being within a team and like Hannah's team's grown massively since I joined like nearly five years ago and like having that support has been like a really big part of it and those connections and things, I think, yeah, for me anyway. And what about you, Hannah? Well, similar, similar situation in that I think, well,

Katy & Hannah (08:17)

I think a few things have changed. think acupuncture and complementary medicine and this idea of medicine not being able to address everything, Western medicine not being able to address everything has become more and more apparent and more spoken about as fertility rates are declining, IVF rates aren't necessarily getting massively different despite 30 or 40 years of the industry. So people have been continuously looking for new ways

Lauren (08:17)

I think a few things have changed. think acupuncture and complementary medicine and this idea of medicine not being able to address everything, Western medicine not being able to address everything has become more and more apparent and more spoken about as fertility rates are declining, IVF rates aren't necessarily getting massively different despite 30 or 40 years of the industry. So people have been continuously looking for new ways

Katy & Hannah (08:47)

of making it better and this emotional side of it, the mental health side of it, the problems that come with that. I think people have been looking for ways to support people as they go through fertility treatment, as they go through trying to conceive after loss. so complementary redson has really moved into that space and I think has really become much more considered, especially amongst IVF clinics. So when I first started in practice, I was literally

Lauren (08:47)

of making it better and this emotional side of it, the mental health side of it, the problems that come with that. I think people have been looking for ways to support people as they go through fertility treatment, as they go through trying to conceive after loss. so complementary redson has really moved into that space and I think has really become much more considered, especially amongst IVF clinics. So when I first started in practice, I was literally

Katy & Hannah (09:15)

banging on the door of IVF clinics, trying to establish a relationship to sort of tell people about how we worked and what we could do. And nowadays I find that people are much more open to listening and those newer, younger maybe consultants are really open to what can we do to support our patients going through such a difficult time. And so it was that sort of combined with, like Katy said, working in a team. So we're not just solo practitioners.

Lauren (09:15)

banging on the door of IVF clinics, trying to establish a relationship to sort of tell people about how we worked and what we could do. And nowadays I find that people are much more open to listening and those newer, younger maybe consultants are really open to what can we do to support our patients going through such a difficult time. And so it was that sort of combined with, like Katy said, working in a team. So we're not just solo practitioners.

Katy & Hannah (09:41)

you know, we're a team of nearly 30 practitioners, so it means that we can support each other. So it gives us the confidence to kind of stand up and make a statement and say something that when you're solo working on your own, you might not necessarily feel that confident to do it. And so I think that comes with something about collaboration and teamwork and really bigging each other up and being there, you know, when you feel a bit intimidated or when somebody might disagree with you.

Lauren (09:41)

you know, we're a team of nearly 30 practitioners, so it means that we can support each other. So it gives us the confidence to kind of stand up and make a statement and say something that when you're solo working on your own, you might not necessarily feel that confident to do it. And so I think that comes with something about collaboration and teamwork and really bigging each other up and being there, you know, when you feel a bit intimidated or when somebody might disagree with you.

Katy & Hannah (10:09)

I think really, really helps strengthen the message that we're trying to get out there. Yeah, it feels like a real reclamation that women are at the forefront of this because obviously we're maybe more affected by the fertility. Obviously the partners are affected as well, but we're maybe a bit more affected by that. And it just reminds me, I live in Scotland now and just the witch trials and like, there weren't really witches. It was just like medicine women and midwives and business owners.

Lauren (10:09)

I think really, really helps strengthen the message that we're trying to get out there. Yeah, it feels like a real reclamation that women are at the forefront of this because obviously we're maybe more affected by the fertility. Obviously the partners are affected as well, but we're maybe a bit more affected by that. And it just reminds me, I live in Scotland now and just the witch trials and like, there weren't really witches. It was just like medicine women and midwives and business owners.

Katy & Hannah (10:38)

who had knowledge. And so it makes me so happy to hear like, you basically have like a coven of women who are absolutely brilliant. So how did you create this team or is it just like a network where you can refer each other? Well, it's a team really. So we are are a team. So everybody works independently through so that everybody has their own business that they run. So Katy obviously has Reflex East. A lot of the practitioners work.

Lauren (10:38)

who had knowledge. And so it makes me so happy to hear like, you basically have like a coven of women who are absolutely brilliant. So how did you create this team or is it just like a network where you can refer each other? Well, it's a team really. So we are are a team. So everybody works independently through so that everybody has their own business that they run. So Katy obviously has Reflex East. A lot of the practitioners work.

Katy & Hannah (11:04)

are solo but they work under the umbrella of the team. So it just means that what we do is we have weekly team meetings, we share, we've got WhatsApp groups, Facebook groups. mean, our WhatsApp group literally never stops going off because we might have a difficult- miss a day and there's literally like, you've got well over a hundred messages across different groups within the WhatsApp community. Like, yeah, it's amazing though, because like someone will always have the answer to your question or like particularly like-

Lauren (11:04)

are solo but they work under the umbrella of the team. So it just means that what we do is we have weekly team meetings, we share, we've got WhatsApp groups, Facebook groups. mean, our WhatsApp group literally never stops going off because we might have a difficult- miss a day and there's literally like, you've got well over a hundred messages across different groups within the WhatsApp community. yeah, it's amazing though, because like someone will always have the answer to your question or like particularly like-

Katy & Hannah (11:33)

your client's question, perhaps you're like, I don't know about that, but I've got literally a pool of 30 people from acupuncturists, nutritionists, herbalists, embryologists, like your fingertips. So it's amazing. It's a good cross the board backgrounds of people to give him, to share the information. And does that sort of collaboration come easy to both of you? Yeah.

Lauren (11:33)

your client's question, perhaps you're like, I don't know about that, but I've got literally a pool of 30 people from acupuncturists, nutritionists, herbalists, embryologists, like your fingertips. So it's amazing. It's a good cross the board backgrounds of people to give him, to share the information. And does that sort of collaboration come easy to both of you? Yeah.

Katy & Hannah (12:03)

I mean, I'm a massive, massive believer in that you have to collaborate. You know, I think as practitioners, when I first went into practice, I felt like there is this kind of, is your competition doing? And how can you be better than your competition? How do you be better than the person that's local to you? And I actually did quite a bit of business coaching back in the day. And what I realized from doing that business coaching was that is not a good way to be in business. The best way to be in business is to reach out.

Lauren (12:03)

I mean, I'm a massive, massive believer in that you have to collaborate. You know, I think as practitioners, when I first went into practice, I felt like there is this kind of, what is your competition doing and how can you be better than your competition? How do you be better than the person that's local to you? And I actually did quite a bit of business coaching back in the day. And what I realized from doing that business coaching was that is not a good way to be in business. The best way to be in business is to reach out.

Katy & Hannah (12:33)

to other people to connect and collaborate. And we are women working in women's health, to be competitive and kind of isolating on your own, it's not how we wanna work. It doesn't bring out the best in us. So it's amazing to do that, to take that kind of competition hat off and put on the collaborative hat because everything flows much, much easier. And we have never, touch wood, had any problems.

Lauren (12:33)

to other people to connect and collaborate. And we are women working in women's health, to be competitive and kind of isolating on your own, it's not how we wanna work. It doesn't bring out the best in us. So it's amazing to do that, to take that kind of competition hat off and put on the collaborative hat because everything flows much, much easier. And we have never, touch wood, had any problems.

Katy & Hannah (13:01)

other than we've just been really supportive to each other. I mean, we're really nice women working together. So what literally what could be better? Yeah, it's a good bunch of people. But it's always nice, especially when we do the in-person stuff. So you see everyone on a screen and like people all over the UK. And yeah, we have like, usually sort of twice a year or so meet up and things. And it's just like, this is great. And I'm like, yeah, so grateful that I found

Lauren (13:01)

other than we've just been really supportive to each other. I mean, we're really nice women working together. So what literally what could be better? Yeah, it's a good bunch of people. But it's always nice, especially when we do the in-person stuff. So you see everyone on a screen and like people all over the UK. And yeah, we have like, usually sort of twice a year or so meet up and things. And it's just like, this is great. And I'm like, yeah, so grateful that I found

support and the team and yeah, just think that you say that's like kind of collaborative nature. And even just today, like I've sent out emails to clients and like a couple of other different practitioners who have sent me other clients and it's just like, just to say thank you because it's like this is, yeah, it's just such a nicer way to work in so many different ways. So yeah, no, does. It feels very similar to like cycle coach school and like how we kind of build that community. And I mean, can't

Katy & Hannah (13:31)

support and the team and yeah, just think that you say that's like kind of collaborative nature. And even just today, like I've sent out emails to clients and like a couple of other different practitioners who have sent me other clients and it's just like, just to say thank you because it's like this is, yeah, it's just such a nicer way to work in so many different ways. So yeah, no, does. It feels very similar to like cycle coach school and like how we kind of build that community. And I mean, can't

feel intimidated. I remember going through and feeling intimidated because there was women who already had businesses and it was just like, you know, you're like, my gosh, like what, what right do I have to be here? but then that like feeling of that circle and being, you know, equal and that you're all bringing in different knowledge. It's just such a beautiful way to work as you say. and especially in that fertility realm, which still feels very mysterious at time. mean, your girlfriend has endo. So that's like a big question mark.

Lauren (14:01)

feel intimidated. I remember going through and feeling intimidated because there was women who already had businesses and it was just like, you know, you're like, my gosh, like what, what right do I have to be here? but then that like feeling of that circle and being, you know, equal and that you're all bringing in different knowledge. It's just such a, such a beautiful way to work as you say. and especially in that fertility realm, which still feels very mysterious at time. I mean, your girlfriend has endo. So that's like a big question mark.

Katy & Hannah (14:30)

still across the board. And I know I have a number of friends doing IVF right now and it just feels like they're like hodgepodging together all these different methods and they're like seeking out acupuncturists and reflexologists themselves versus like maybe the clinic recommending and maybe this is specific to Canada or Australia or the UK. I'm not sure if it's across the board all the clinics. But how do you navigate

Lauren (14:30)

still across the board. And I know I have a number of friends doing IVF right now and it just feels like they're like hodgepodging together all these different methods and they're like seeking out acupuncturists and reflexologists themselves versus like maybe the clinic recommending and maybe this is specific to Canada or Australia or the UK. I'm not sure if it's across the board all the clinics. But how do you navigate

Katy & Hannah (14:58)

working in a field that is kind of shrouded in mystery at time.

Lauren (14:58)

working in a field that is kind of shrouded in mystery at time.

Katy & Hannah (15:02)

Do you me to? I feel like you've probably got a better answer to that than I do. When you say shrouded in mystery, what do you mean? Can you explain that a bit more? Yeah, absolutely. I just feel like there aren't always answers for everything in terms of so just, I think sometimes like as a patient, women are having to like find their own answers, advocate for themselves. And that's not specific to fertility. I think that's women's health in general. And we're still like, I saw like your

Lauren (15:02)

Do you me to? I feel like you've probably got a better answer to that than I do. When you say shrouded in mystery, what do you mean? Can you explain that a bit more? Yeah, absolutely. I just feel like there aren't always answers for everything in terms of so just, I think sometimes like as a patient, women are having to like find their own answers, advocate for themselves. And that's not specific to fertility. I think that's women's health in general. And we're still like, I saw like your

Katy & Hannah (15:32)

doing the whole month of May on men's fertility because that's so disregarded at times. So how is it working in like basically receiving clients and maybe having to be the education, the educator and the practitioner in that sense? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a really big part of what we do and it kind of what sets us apart as fertility specialists as opposed to general practitioners because

Lauren (15:32)

doing the whole month of May on men's fertility because that's so disregarded at times. So how is it working in like basically receiving clients and maybe having to be the education, the educator and the practitioner in that sense? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a really big part of what we do and it kind of what sets us apart as fertility specialists as opposed to general practitioners because

Katy & Hannah (15:58)

whether you come from reflexology, whether you went for nutrition or whether you came to acupuncture with us, what you're going to get is obviously that treatment in clinic, but you're going to get all that information and signposting from your practitioner as well. So that's why we do so much CPD and why we have such good understanding of the Western medicine approaches and actually all the approaches to fertility and women's health, because we really help guide people as to what information might be relevant for them.

Lauren (15:58)

whether you come from reflexology, whether you went for nutrition or whether you came to acupuncture with us, what you're going to get is obviously that treatment in clinic, but you're going to get all that information and signposting from your practitioner as well. So that's why we do so much CPD and why we have such good understanding of the Western medicine approaches and actually all the approaches to fertility and women's health, because we really help guide people as to what information might be relevant for them.

Katy & Hannah (16:28)

because what we find is obviously people come feeling completely overwhelmed, really confused. They've usually Googled or chat GPT'd the hell out of their signs and symptoms. And the problem with that is what they don't know is what is relevant for them at that stage of their journey. Because obviously fertility is massive and you could go down and spend thousands and years doing testing and investigation and there are many, many paths to tread.

Lauren (16:28)

because what we find is obviously people come feeling completely overwhelmed, really confused. They've usually Googled or chat GPT'd the hell out of their signs and symptoms. And the problem with that is what they don't know is what is relevant for them at that stage of their journey. Because obviously fertility is massive and you could go down and spend thousands and years doing testing and investigation and there are many, many paths to tread.

Katy & Hannah (16:56)

And what we try and do is discuss that at the right point for that person. So it's a very, very individual. And that's really a lot of the care that you get as well as the actual treatment in clinic, because that's what people want. They wanna have time to sit with a practitioner and the practitioner be able to say, okay, this is your situation. These are things that you might want to think about. Here's the information. And what I always say to people is I can't tell you what to do, because...

Lauren (16:56)

And what we try and do is discuss that at the right point for that person. So it's a very, very individual. And that's really a lot of the care that you get as well as the actual treatment in clinic, because that's what people want. They wanna have time to sit with a practitioner and the practitioner be able to say, okay, this is your situation. These are things that you might want to think about. Here's the information. And what I always say to people is I can't tell you what to do, because...

Katy & Hannah (17:23)

I'm not a Western doctor and I don't believe that is the right thing for any practitioner to do. I like to work in partnership with our patients, but what I can do is provide all the information and really empower you with good sources so that you can inform yourself and then make the best decision for yourself because there is no one road that is right for everybody and fertility is so confusing and it is so overwhelming.

Lauren (17:23)

I'm not a Western doctor and I don't believe that is the right thing for any practitioner to do. I like to work in partnership with our patients, but what I can do is provide all the information and really empower you with good sources so that you can inform yourself and then make the best decision for yourself because there is no one road that is right for everybody and fertility is so confusing and it is so overwhelming.

Katy & Hannah (17:50)

that I think people sometimes have to make their own decisions and that they often have to make their own pathway because you can have one doctor telling you one thing, you can have another doctor telling you something completely different, you could see an acupuncturist telling you something different again. So, you know, it's a very, very confusing place for people to be and I think our job is to really help them navigate that confusion as well as give really good care when they're one-to-one in clinic.

Lauren (17:50)

that I think people sometimes have to make their own decisions and that they often have to make their own pathway because you can have one doctor telling you one thing, you can have another doctor telling you something completely different, you could see an acupuncturist telling you something different again. So, you know, it's a very, very confusing place for people to be and I think our job is to really help them navigate that confusion as well as give really good care when they're one-to-one in clinic.

That's a beautiful answer. Thank you. How do you hold space for or navigate the impending potential grief of your clients? It's an emotional rollercoaster, whether you're fertility, whether you're just as a cycle coach, you're meeting women at different points in their life. How do you navigate that?

Katy & Hannah (18:19)

Beautiful answer. Thank you. How do you hold space for or navigate the impending potential grief of your clients? know, it's an emotional roller coaster, whether you're fertility, whether you're just as a cycle coach, you're meeting women at different points in their life. How do you navigate that?

finding it hard to put into words. I think like literally giving people space, just even to say it out loud is a big part of it. Like, people hold a lot of grief a lot, I think a lot of shame for some of the feelings they might be having, particularly if they have like jealousy of friends, family or like, or just

Lauren (18:39)

finding it hard to put into words. I think like, literally giving people space, just even to say it out loud is a big part of it. Like, people hold a lot of grief a lot, I think a lot of shame for some of the feelings they might be having, particularly if they have like jealousy of friends, family or like, or just

Katy & Hannah (19:02)

not wanting to hear about stuff and feeling like guilt that someone's got pregnant and they feel sad or angry about it and like just letting people say it and give them space to cry or like not being afraid of like the silences. That's something that definitely I've kind of learned over the years that like literally just let people feel their feelings. And I think also something that I've had to kind of sit with, I remember the very first client that I had.

Lauren (19:02)

not wanting to hear about stuff and feeling like guilt that someone's got pregnant and they feel sad or angry about it and like just letting people say it and give them space to cry or like not being afraid of like the silences. That's something that definitely I've kind of learned over the years that like literally just let people feel their feelings. And I think also something that I've had to kind of sit with, I remember the very first client that I had.

Katy & Hannah (19:31)

who'd gone through baby loss and I was just like totally overwhelmed by it. Like it really rocked me in a way I didn't expect it to. But also then like a few people saying to me, but it's not your job to solve it. Like, yes, she's been through something horrendous and like a really difficult time, but like you're there as a practitioner to yes, give them space to listen and things, but you provide your treatment and like that's.

Lauren (19:31)

who'd gone through baby loss and I was just like totally overwhelmed by it. Like it really rocked me in a way I didn't expect it to. But also then like a few people saying to me, but it's not your job to solve it. Like, yes, she's been through something horrendous and like a really difficult time, but like you're there as a practitioner to yes, give them space to listen and things, but you provide your treatment and like that's.

Katy & Hannah (19:58)

that is enough and that can be really powerful for people. yeah, I think there's some of like the big things that I've learned over the years and like not to be afraid of it and like not to shy away from like maybe asking them questions. Like I know that we've done trainings on, we had like the Christmas training we did with the charity sans talking about like baby loss and things and just.

Lauren (19:58)

that is enough and that can be really powerful for people. And yeah, I think there's some of like the big things that I've learned over the years and like not to be afraid of it and like not to shy away from like maybe asking them questions. Like I know that we've done trainings on, we had like the Christmas training we did with the charity sans talking about like baby loss and things and just.

Katy & Hannah (20:22)

if they named their baby saying their baby's name and stuff like that and just like really like acknowledging the grief as well for them, like don't kind of persevere around it necessarily. I mean, I guess it depends client to client, like you build your relationships with these clients as well. So you'll get a feel for what they need as well. So yeah, like trust, trusting your intuition as well. Yeah. And not being afraid of that silence. That's beautiful.

Lauren (20:22)

if they named their baby saying their baby's name and stuff like that and just like really like acknowledging the grief as well for them, like don't kind of persevere around it necessarily. I mean, I guess it depends client to client, like you build your relationships with these clients as well. So you'll get a feel for what they need as well. So yeah, like trust, trusting your intuition as well. Yeah. And not being afraid of that silence. That's beautiful.

Katy & Hannah (20:48)

And Hannah, did you have anything to add or is that like exactly what you were thinking? No, absolutely. I think it's a skill that we don't necessarily get taught. I don't know about you, Katy, in reflexology school. We didn't get taught it at school. And it's sort of, you know, we've done a lot of training on it because as fertility practitioners, ultimately you are dealing with a lot of grief, whether it's the failed round of IVF or canceled round of IVF.

Lauren (20:48)

And Hannah, did you have anything to add or is that like exactly what you were thinking? No, absolutely. I think it's a skill that we don't necessarily get taught. I don't know about you, Katy, in reflexology school. We didn't get taught it at a school. And it's sort of, you know, we've done a lot of training on it because as fertility practitioners, ultimately you are dealing with a lot of grief, whether it's the failed round of IVF or canceled round of IVF.

Katy & Hannah (21:16)

a period that's come that wasn't expected, know, there's a huge amount of grief and that is the reality of our work. So learning how to sit with that and validate it regardless of whether it's a period starting, an early miscarriage, just having that ability to validate it to the people that we're sat in front of because often people feel like, exactly like Katy said, it...

Lauren (21:16)

a period that's come that wasn't expected, know, there's a huge amount of grief and that is the reality of our work. So learning how to sit with that and validate it regardless of whether it's a period starting, an early miscarriage, just having that ability to validate it to the people that we're sat in front of because often people feel like, exactly like Katy said, it...

Katy & Hannah (21:41)

you know, it was early, so I need to just move on. I don't know why I'm upset. was just my, you know, lots of people start with, was just an odd. is a big thing. It's a big thing. And it doesn't matter at what stage it was or where you're at or how often it's been happening. I we have lots of people with secondary infertility who say, I shouldn't feel guilty. I have a child. You know, there's a lot of complicated feelings. And our job is to reflect back that whatever you feel is okay. And it's completely valid.

Lauren (21:41)

you know, it was early, so I need to just move on. I don't know why I'm upset. was just my, you know, lots of people start with, was just an odd. is a big thing. It's a big thing. And it doesn't matter at what stage it was or where you're at or how often it's been happening. I we have lots of people with secondary infertility who say, I shouldn't feel guilty. I have a child. You know, there's a lot of complicated feelings. And our job is to reflect back that whatever you feel is okay. And it's completely valid.

Katy & Hannah (22:09)

And often I find that patients are very grateful to have that validated and sort of reflected back to them and then have some space to discuss it. And like Tate said, feel the feelings because I don't think it's given a lot in a lot of other places. Yeah. mean, even other clients are talking with friends. There's always that need to almost like preempt what you're about to say by being like, obviously I'm happy for them. And you're just like...

Lauren (22:09)

And often I find that patients are very grateful to have that validated and sort of reflected back to them and then have some space to discuss it. And like Tate said, feel the feelings because I don't think it's given a lot in a lot of other places. Yeah. mean, even whether clients are talking with friends, there's always that need to almost like preempt what you're about to say by being like, obviously I'm happy for them. And you're just like...

Katy & Hannah (22:37)

I know we can get through that. Yeah. After we've chatted about it a few times, I know you're happy for them. You can also just like be sad and jealous. Yeah. Guilty and whatever. All the feelings that you're feeling are completely valid. So I love that.

Lauren (22:37)

I know we can get through that. Yeah. After we've chatted about it a few times. I know you're happy for them. You can also just like be sad and jealous. Yeah. Guilty and whatever all the feelings that you're feeling are completely valid. So I love that.

Katy & Hannah (22:57)

Speaking of, yeah, I just keep coming back to this circle of practitioners you have, because it sounds like so delicious. But maybe we can kind of like get into how the two of you have like started to collaborate on social media. Like, how did that start? Because that was like my first kind of like introduction to the two of you, because Lauren was chatting about like possible podcast guests, and she like sent me your Instagrams.

Lauren (22:57)

Speaking of, yeah, I just keep coming back to this circle of practitioners you have, because it sounds like so delicious. But maybe we can kind of like get into how the two of you have like started to collaborate on social media. Like, how did that start? Because that was like my first kind of like introduction to the two of you, because Lauren was chatting about like possible podcast guests, and she like sent me your Instagrams.

And

I think it was like the first reel that was there. And it was just the two of you like chewing gum.

The fertility myths that you're breaking it or whatever. This is incredible. How did that relationship start? I don't really know. just think it like Katy said, I think, you know, I got in contact with Katy all those years ago on Instagram because I liked the way that she did her Instagram in that she was bold and funny

Katy & Hannah (23:26)

fertility myths that you're breaking it or whatever. This is incredible. How did that relationship start? I don't really know. just think it like Katy said, I think, you know, I got in contact with Katy all those years ago on Instagram because I liked the way that she did her Instagram in that she was bold and funny.

and she was not taking herself too seriously.

And so I think, and that is exactly some of the ways that I approach social media as well. So we were quite similar. so I think when you, again, it's that thing, when you do things on your own, it's quite hard work. You you're really putting yourself out there. When you do it, when you collaborate with someone else and there's two of you doing it, it feels a lot easier to kind of...

Lauren (23:53)

And so I think that is exactly some of the ways that I approach social media as well. So we were quite similar. so I think when you, again, it's that thing, when you do things on your own, it's quite hard work. You you're really putting yourself out there. When you do it, when you collaborate with someone else and there's two of you doing it, it feels a lot easier to kind of

be out there and it feels a lot, I don't know, it feels a lot safer and it's much more, it's always more fun than doing it by yourself.

Katy & Hannah (24:15)

be out there and it feels a lot, I don't know, it feels a lot safer and it's much more, it's always more fun than doing it by yourself.

Lauren (24:22)

So I just think it's just one of those things that we both are very, very similar. We don't mind looking idiots. We both have a drama background of some of these things. Some of us more than others, but we've definitely walked the board. That might help as well.

Katy & Hannah (24:22)

So I, yeah, I just think it's just one of those things that we both are very, very similar. We don't mind looking idiots. We both have a drama background of some of these people. Some of us more than others, but you know, we've definitely walked the board. So that might help as well.

Lauren (24:45)

A background in theater helps. Got it.

Katy & Hannah (24:45)

background in theatre helps, got it.

Yeah, the theatre kid in me was very pleased when Reels became a thing. yeah, think like, yet again, that collaborative nature of things, like the thought of me posting on Instagram every other day is like, God, don't want do that.

Lauren (24:50)

Yeah, the theatre kid in me was very pleased when Reels became a thing. yeah, think like, yet again, that collaborative nature of things, like the thought of me posting on Instagram every other day is like, God, I don't want to do that.

But when you were like, come on, we've done it before, let's do it again. And I was like, okay. And then like, it just, it just felt a lot easier being like, okay, well, how did you want to say I can do what you like again, like it's fine. It's easy. And I mean,

Katy & Hannah (25:07)

But when you were like, come on, we've done it before, let's do it again. And I was like, okay. And then like, it just, it just felt a lot easier being like, okay, well, how did you want to say I can do what you like again, like it's fine. It's easy. And I mean,

I think we all have a love hate relationship with social media, but it is how a lot of people access information. So I think making it in a way that is like for a subject that like we say, can carry so much grief for people and like difficult complex feelings to.

Lauren (25:20)

I think we all have a love-hate relationship with social media, but it is how lot of people access information. I think making it in a way that is, like for a subject that like we say, can carry so much grief for people and like difficult, complex feelings to

be able to find some lightness in it or like to make it relatable or easy to understand something I think is a really like nice thing that we can bring to people and...

Katy & Hannah (25:35)

be able to find some lightness in it or like to make it relatable or easy to understand something I think is a really like nice thing that we can bring to people and yeah,

Lauren (25:48)

Yeah, because otherwise it's all just very heavy. I think something that I know a lot of us are really passionate about is just making sure people get through the fertility journey, maintaining a sense of self and just remembering to

Katy & Hannah (25:48)

because otherwise it's all just very heavy and I think something that I know like a lot of us are really passionate about is just making sure people like get through the fertility journey like maintaining a sense of self and like just remembering to like

Lauren (26:04)

laugh. I that sounds so basic and I don't mean it to be reductive or anything, but you need to stay sane. So if we can make you laugh, then I think that's a good thing.

Katy & Hannah (26:04)

laugh. I know it sounds so basic and I don't mean it to be like reductive or anything, but like you need to like stay sane. So if we can make you laugh, then I think that's a good thing.

Lauren (26:16)

Yeah, for sure. mean, yeah, social media, it's such a beautiful connector in many ways. Obviously, that's how you guys met and that's how we can connect to clients. But there are days where I'm like, I just like to whip my phone into the abyss and go lie in a forest because it can be so

Katy & Hannah (26:16)

Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, social media, it's such a beautiful connector in many ways. Like obviously that's how you guys met and like that's how we can connect to clients. But there are days where I'm like, I just like to whip my phone into the abyss and like go lie in a forest because it can be so

Lauren (26:33)

lonely posting by yourself. sometimes there's engagement, sometimes there's not. And you're just like, what are we doing? What is the point of it? We've lost the social and social media. So I love that.

Katy & Hannah (26:33)

lonely posting by yourself and you're like, and sometimes there's engagement, sometimes there's not, and you're just like, what are we doing? What is the point of it? Like we've lost the social and social media. So I love that

you guys are getting together to make these, I mean, I say ridiculous, but they're like iconic in many ways because it's so, like they're just so funny that it's like, has to be, it's the kind of thing you would share with like your friends going through IVF and, just like fertility in general being like, yeah, just relax, just.

Lauren (26:45)

you guys are getting together to make these, I mean, I say ridiculous, but they're like iconic in many ways because it's so, like they're just so funny that it's like, has to be, it's the kind of thing you would share with like your friends going through IVF and, just like fertility in general being like, yeah, just relax, just

have

a drink. Like, okay, great. Thank you. Cool. What has the response been like with your clients or with like other practitioners?

Katy & Hannah (27:02)

have a drink like, okay, great, thank you. Cool. What has the response been like with your clients or with like other practitioners?

I mean, I'd say overwhelmingly, really positive because, you know, lots of people find us through Instagram. So from a business point of view, lots of people find us from a kind of practitioner point of view.

Lauren (27:14)

I mean, I'd say overwhelmingly really positive because, you know, lots of people find us through Instagram. So from a business point of view, lots of people find us from a kind of practitioner point of view.

You know, I've got to know a lot of acupuncturists because a lot of acupuncturists are like, who's this acupuncturist banging on about acupuncture and, you know, all of those kinds of things. And so I think when you do sort of put your head up and you're willing to kind of...

Katy & Hannah (27:28)

You know, I've got to know a lot of acupuncturists because a lot of acupuncturists are like, who's this acupuncturist banging on about acupuncture and, you know, all of those kinds of things. And so I think when you do sort of put your head up and you're willing to kind of

talk about what you do as a profession, I think it benefits everybody really, because, you know, anyone talking about acupuncture and what it can do, reflexology and what it can do.

Lauren (27:42)

talk about what you do as a profession, I think it benefits everybody really because anyone talking about acupuncture and what it can do, reflexology and what it can do,

people engage that and they learn something new, then that has a positive, that ripple effect for all practitioners working in this field. So I mean, I guess people who don't like it just unfollow us, but I think overwhelmingly.

Katy & Hannah (27:52)

you know, people engage that and they've learned something new, then that has a positive, that ripple effect for all practitioners working in this field. I mean, it's genuine. mean, you I guess people who don't like it just don't follow us. But I think overwhelmingly,

apart from my teenagers who absolutely hate me, most people feel like it's, it's all right. There is sometimes that feeling of like wanting to

Lauren (28:07)

Apart from my teenagers who absolutely hate me, most people feel like it's alright. There is sometimes that feeling of wanting to

block everyone you actually know in real life. You just have to get over that. My husband logging on and being like, what's this? like, don't, don't. The amount of times I'll hear my own voice through my girlfriend's phone and I'm like, no, no, let's not do that.

Katy & Hannah (28:18)

block everyone you actually know in real life. You just have to get over that. My husband logging on and being like, what's this? I'm like, don't, don't. The amount of times I'll hear my own voice through my girlfriend's phone and I'm like, no, no, let's not do that. It's

Lauren (28:36)

But your business, please just like and comment. But exactly. I like just like everything and don't actually watch it. But I think, yeah, like the same as I'm the same, overwhelmingly positive. And I think it's,

Katy & Hannah (28:36)

none of your business. Please just like and comment. But exactly. I like, just like everything and don't actually watch it. I think, yeah, like the same as Hannah saying, like overwhelmingly positive. And I think it's.

Lauren (28:48)

it's

really nice from like a client perspective as well. Cause like, if you're like being your authentic self online slash being a bit silly and things, but also like, know, your stuff and it then I think quite often.

Katy & Hannah (28:48)

it's really nice from like a client perspective as well because like if you're like being your authentic self online slash being a bit silly and things but also like you know your stuff and it then I think quite often

I've noticed that if people have been on Instagram like those clients come and they stay because they've already got a good feel for you and if they want to work with you versus having to like have that first initial appointment to get a feel and then they're like

Lauren (29:06)

I've noticed that if people have been on Instagram, like those clients come and they stay because they've already got a good feel for you. And if they want to work with you versus having to like have that first initial appointment to get a feel and then they're like,

okay, yes, like I do gel with this person. Whereas yeah, putting yourself out there online, I think kind of acts as a litmus test. that what I mean? Let's call it that. Where, yeah, so people kind of, they can get a feel for you. So from that business perspective, I found it really useful that

Katy & Hannah (29:17)

Okay, yes, like I do gel with this person. Whereas yeah, putting yourself out there online, think kind of acts as a litmus test. that what I mean? Let's call it that. Where, yeah, so people kind of, they can get a feel for you. So from that business perspective, I found it really useful that

I really like all the clients I work with because they know that I'm a bit daft at times, but also like I'm going to really care for them as well. yeah. No, absolutely. I resonate with that because

Lauren (29:34)

I really like all the clients I work with because they know that I'm a bit daft at times, but also like I'm going to really care for them as well. yeah. No, absolutely. I resonate with that because

I feel like that's where all your best clients come from really is when you get to like, whether it's over zoom or just in person, connect with them and they can hear your voice and they know what you think is funny and it's all your weird hobbies in the background. think sometimes it can be like,

Katy & Hannah (29:47)

I feel like that's where all your best clients come from really is when you get to like, whether it's over zoom or just in person, connect with them and they can hear your voice and they know what you think is funny and it's all your weird hobbies in the background. think sometimes it can be like

feeling like you need to be very sterile if it's like a business account, cause you're like, I'm going to be professional and post like an informative carousel, which is like absolutely fab. Love that. And I think, yeah.

Lauren (30:00)

feeling like you need to be very sterile if it's like a business account, because you're like, I'm going to be professional and post like an informative carousel, which is like absolutely fab. Love that. And I think, yeah,

I'm wondering if like that's the difference between like just following someone and actually wanting to book with them is being like, actually.

Katy & Hannah (30:12)

wondering if that's the difference between just following someone and actually wanting to book with them is being like, actually.

I really like their vibe. Totally. Yeah. When I started my Instagram, was like, I'm not going to put my face on it. It's going to be really arty and it's going to be all this. And they very quickly gave up on that idea because I was like, this is not who you are. Stop pretending. And then I was just like, can't try to be artsy and cool.

Lauren (30:20)

When I started my Instagram, I was like, I'm not going to put my face on it. It's going to be really arty and it's going to be all this. And like very quickly gave up on that idea because I was like, this is not who you are. Like stop pretending. then like, yeah, I was just like, I can't try to be artsy and cool.

Katy & Hannah (30:39)

Just exclusively feed. Yeah. Attract a whole other clientele. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's happened before. But anyway, that's story for another day. Another podcast. So carrying this potentially like heavy industry of fertility, like potentially meeting clients in difficult parts of their life, carrying social media, that presence.

Lauren (30:39)

Just exclusively feed. Attract a whole other clientele. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, that's happened before. But anyway, that's story for another day. Another podcast. So carrying this potentially like heavy industry of fertility, like potentially meeting clients in difficult parts of their life, carrying social media, that presence.

Katy & Hannah (31:08)

How do you then disconnect? What does your self-care look like? What does your support systems look like as a practitioner?

Lauren (31:08)

How do you then disconnect? What does your self-care look like? What does your support systems look like as a practitioner?

Katy & Hannah (31:17)

Well, I mean, we have each other. We, so we have the team. Um, so if we have had a difficult day or a difficult, difficult client, if we've sat with someone through loss, it's a great place to kind of just get some support and just sort of tell the experience of what you do. I mean, as, as a, I mean, as a practitioner, you know, I try and do all the things like the sleep, the, yeah, I'll try and do all the things that I talk about on a day to day basis. Sometimes I do them really well.

Lauren (31:17)

well, I mean, we have each other. We, so we have the team. so if we have had a difficult day or a difficult, difficult client, if we've sat with someone through loss, it's a great place to kind of just get some support and just sort of tell the experience of what you do. I mean, as, as a, I mean, as a practitioner, you know, I try and do all the things like the sleep, the, yeah, I'll try and do all the things that I talk about on a day to day basis. Sometimes I do them really well.

Katy & Hannah (31:47)

A lot of the times I don't do them really well. I personally do lot of exercise, a lot of walking my dog, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I definitely think having each other helps. Like I can't think of the amount of times that I've been like working out with your Stretton Clinic, Hannah, you come bring me a cup of tea and I'm like, and you're just like, you've just got to hold your nerve. And I'm like, okay. So I think that's been really helpful.

Lauren (31:47)

A lot of the times I don't do them really well. I personally do lot of exercise, a lot of walking my dog, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I definitely think having each other helps. Like I can't think of the amount of times that I've been like working out with your Stretton Clinic, Hannah, you come bring me a cup of tea and I'm like, and you're just like, you've just got to hold your nerve. And I'm like, okay. So I think that's been really helpful.

Katy & Hannah (32:13)

I used to be a dancer and I still dance now and like that, like we have like weekly training sessions and that's been a really like positive thing for me just to have something that's nothing to do with work or fertility just to like really disconnect in like real mind body kind of way and and yeah like occasionally like like well that's like not occasionally very often when I've had therapy in the past I have

Lauren (32:13)

I used to be a dancer and I still dance now and like that, like we have like weekly training sessions and that's been a really like positive thing for me just to have something that's like nothing to do with work or fertility just to like really disconnect in like real mind body kind of way and and yeah like occasionally like like well that's like not occasionally very often when I've had therapy in the past I have

talked about Instagram a shocking amount because it played on my mind a lot and like can do and just being like oh it's not the priority but I think sometimes those like metrics can like you say when it's like crickets and things and then the little egos like ah why has everything gone quiet where's like where are the new clients and things and yeah like just having a bit of help with like the mindset around that like

Katy & Hannah (32:42)

talked about Instagram a shocking amount because it played on my mind a lot and like can do and just being like it's not the priority but I think sometimes those like metrics can like you say when it's like crickets and things and then the little egos like why has everything gone quiet where's like where are the new clients and things and yeah like just having a bit of help with like the mindset around that like

So yeah, kind of, yeah, a variety of different things, but definitely disconnecting from work has been really important because I, yeah, being of an obsessive and anxious nature can go the wrong way with it sometimes. But. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's easy to drown in social media thinking this is my main business. Oh, yeah. Went viral once and hated every second of it. So was like, why did I think I wanted that?

Lauren (33:09)

So yeah, kind of, yeah, a variety of different things, but definitely disconnecting from work has been really important because I, yeah, being of an obsessive and anxious nature can go the wrong way with it sometimes. But. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's easy to drown in social media thinking this is my main business. Oh, yeah. It's like a marketing. I went viral once and hated every second of it. So was like, why did I think I wanted that?

Katy & Hannah (33:38)

I think what's also helpful to do sometimes that I sometimes have to come back to when I'm getting in, it depends what mindset I'm in, but to remind yourself what are you doing and why you're doing it. you know, sometimes when I get like graspy about, my reels doing well or is the business doing well? I have to remind myself, hang on a minute, the purpose of the business is to care and support signpost people who are trying to conceive, whether it's through WinClinic, through the Instagram.

Lauren (33:38)

I think what's also helpful to do sometimes that I sometimes have to come back to when I'm getting in, depends what mindset I'm in, but to remind yourself what are you doing and why you're doing it. you know, sometimes when I get like graspy about, my reels doing well or is the business doing well? I have to remind myself, hang on a minute, the purpose of the business is to care and support signpost people who are trying to conceive, whether it's through WinClinic, through the Instagram.

Katy & Hannah (34:08)

on the podcast and that is the goal and that is why I'm turning up on a daily basis. It's not to get 40,000 likes on my next reel. And so coming back to that, like, who are you serving? What is the purpose of your business? I think is really, really important when you feel that you're going into the graspy world, which is so easy. It's to come back and go, well, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm, this is what I'm doing. And if one person listens and is benefits from.

Lauren (34:08)

on the podcast and that is the goal and that is why I'm turning up on a daily basis. It's not to get 40,000 likes on my next reel. And so coming back to that, like, who are you serving? What is the purpose of your business? I think is really, really important when you feel that you're going into the graspy world, which is so easy. It's to come back and go, well, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm, I'm, this is what I'm doing. And if one person listens and is benefits from.

watching a reel or listening to a podcast episode, then that is, that's what I'm setting out to do. And I think that can be really helpful with when you get into like overwhelmed with running your business or being on social media or whatever it is. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I'm wondering when you're entering into like social media and into this industry, I know a common comment from like graduates from our school is that like, there's almost like that comparison. Yeah, exactly. Because they're just like,

Katy & Hannah (34:37)

watching a reel or listening to a podcast episode, then that is, that's what I'm setting out to do. And I think that can be really helpful with when you get into like overwhelmed with running your business or being on social media or whatever it is. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I'm wondering when you're entering into like social media and into this industry, I know a common comment from like graduates from our school is that like, there's almost like that comparison. Yeah, exactly. Cause you're just like,

You're following all your friends, you're following all the practitioners you love, and then you're just like, you've built your own echo chamber and you're like, well, nobody needs my voice because they're all talking about it. Yeah. And that's exactly when you start having those thoughts is exactly when you have to just go back to what is the purpose of my business and just stay in lane. And that's it. It is actually really simple. It's just what happens is the brain and the ego.

Lauren (35:06)

You're following all your friends, you're following all the practitioners you love, and then you're just like, you've built your own echo chamber and you're like, well, nobody needs my voice because they're all talking about it. Yeah. And that's exactly when you start having those thoughts is exactly when you have to just go back to what is the purpose of my business and just stay in lane. And that's it. It is actually really simple. It's just what happens is the brain and the ego.

Katy & Hannah (35:32)

gets involved and it takes us off on a merry little dance of insecurity and competitiveness. And we need to kind of wrestle with that. More so like if anything in your business is the important thing, it's that side of it rather than your numbers and all of that kind of business. That's the really important part because if you follow that, if you follow your purpose at all times, you won't go into that kind of competitiveness or comparison or any of that kind of stuff. And that's really important so that you don't burn out and give up, which is...

Lauren (35:32)

gets involved and it takes us off on a merry little dance of insecurity and competitiveness. And we need to kind of wrestle with that. More so like if anything in your business is the important thing, it's that side of it rather than your numbers and all of that kind of business. That's the really important part because if you follow that, if you follow your purpose at all times, you won't go into that kind of competitiveness or comparison or any of that kind of stuff. And that's really important so that you don't burn out and give up, which is...

Katy & Hannah (36:02)

a very common scenario for all practitioners, think, but acupuncturists especially. Yeah, it's almost like you need to put on like the horse blinders a bit because I find like I know I have fallen victim of it as well of like, you're wanting to make contact content that like will impress your peers. And then you're like, wait, I've like skipped like way ahead then versus where my client is like my client square one and I'm like,

Lauren (36:02)

a very common scenario for all practitioners, think, but acupuncturists especially. Yeah, it's almost like you need to put on like the horse blinders a bit because I find like I know I have fallen victim of it as well of like, you're wanting to make contact content that like will impress your peers. And then you're like, wait, I've like skipped like way ahead then versus where my client is like my client square one and I'm like,

Katy & Hannah (36:30)

trying to do stuff that's like so cool and like square 50. And it's just like, let's just know. Yeah, keep it simple. Yeah. Yeah, it's always like, if you're just talking from a content perspective, it's always the bloody simple thing that took you 10 seconds to make versus the thing with 100 edits that does better anyway. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of like what I saying earlier, if I had this idea of what I thought my reflexology business was going to be versus what it turned into. I think

Lauren (36:30)

trying to do stuff that's like so cool and like square 50. And it's just like, let's just know. Yeah, keep it simple. Yeah. Yeah, it's always like, if you're just talking from a content perspective, it's always the bloody simple thing that took you 10 seconds to make versus the thing with 100 edits that does better anyway. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of like what I saying earlier, if I had this idea of what I thought my reflexology business was going to be versus what it turned into. I think

Katy & Hannah (36:56)

once you just start to put yourself out there and like flex that muscle and like remember like nothing has to be perfect the first time you do or even the 500th time you post on Instagram, like you'll find your voice and that will connect with different people and things. think, yeah, like your voice is perfectly valid. You just like got to have a bit of conviction with what you have to say and how you want to say it because people want to work with different types of people and you'll connect with the people that you'll work well with through.

Lauren (36:56)

once you just start to put yourself out there and like flex that muscle and like remember like nothing has to be perfect the first time you do or even the 500th time you post on Instagram, like you'll find your voice and that will connect with different people and things. I think, yeah, like your voice is perfectly valid. You just like got to have a bit of conviction with what you have to say and how you want to say it because people want to work with different types of people and you'll connect with the people that you'll work well with through.

Katy & Hannah (37:27)

being yourself, putting yourself out there and doing that. Yeah, especially in an age where we're kind of removing that like putting someone on the pedestal, like that's who I want to learn from or like in the age of AI where, know, we've kind of lost our voice maybe collectively, but it's just like, it's wonderful as a reminder that like, even if I remember going through the training with Lauren and being like,

Lauren (37:27)

being yourself, putting yourself out there and doing that. Yeah, especially in an age where we're kind of removing that like putting someone on the pedestal, like that's who I want to learn from or like in the age of AI where, know, we've kind of lost our voice maybe collectively, but it's just like, it's wonderful as a reminder that like, even if I remember going through the training with Lauren and being like,

Katy & Hannah (37:52)

She's so soft spoken, she's Australian. I love the Australian accent. I'm like, wow. And then I'm like Canadian being like, hi. And I'm like, I must speak quiet. Be who you want to be. What advice would you have for someone who's maybe brand new starting their business in the female health world?

Lauren (37:52)

She's so soft spoken, she's Australian. I love the Australian accent. I'm like, wow. And then I'm like Canadian being like, hi. And I'm like, I must speak quiet. Be who you want to be. What advice would you have for someone who's maybe brand new starting their business in the female health world?

Katy & Hannah (38:18)

I would say I reiterate what I've just said around this idea of who is your ideal person that you want to work with? Like who are they? What are their problems? Why? What do you know that they might want to know that they might find helpful? Because there'll be lots of things like what are their issues? How can you help them and just do that? Follow that path and keep it simple and follow that path and you, it will serve you well. I mean,

Lauren (38:18)

I would say, I'd reiterate what I've just said around this idea of who is your ideal person that you want to work with? who are they? What are their problems? Why, what do you know that they might want to know that they might find helpful? Because there'll be lots of things like what are their issues? How can you help them and just do that, follow that path and keep it simple and follow that path and it will serve you well.

Katy & Hannah (38:47)

Yeah, that is so important, knowing who the people you want to work with are, you're making sure whatever you're putting out there is speaking to them. also just from a more business side, I guess, whatever. You don't need a logo or anything like that to start with.

Lauren (38:47)

Yeah, that is so important, knowing who the people you want to work with are, so you're making sure whatever you're putting out there is speaking to them. also just from a more business side, I guess, whatever. You don't need a logo or anything like that to start with.

I'd love to get one done, but I mean, I'm six or seven years in and don't have like a logo. I Hannah, you've got all your like lovely stuff now, but that came I've had about five different logos. But I remember like really stressing about being like, what am going to call it? Or what's this going to be? Or blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like that, like it either come in time or you can change it or you don't need one. Like don't stress about that stuff. I think the thing that is really important is what Hannah said of like, who are you speaking to? Who do you want to serve? Like, and

Katy & Hannah (39:10)

I'd love to get one done, but I mean, I'm six or seven years in and don't have like a logo. I Hannah, you've got all your like lovely stuff now, but that came I've had about five different logos. But I remember like really stressing about being like, what am going to call it? Or what's this going to be? Or blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like that, like it either come in time or you can change it or you don't need one. Like don't stress about that stuff. I think the thing that is really important is what Hannah said of like, who are you speaking to? Who do you want to serve? Like, and

being clear on that and then the rest will come in time. Like the name isn't like the, the be all and end all. Like it can change as well. I'd also add one more thing is that I would always get a really good accountant. Because well, and I'm massively projecting my experience here, you know, maths and I imagine it's quite common in the world of therapists, but.

Lauren (39:39)

being clear on that and then the rest will come in time. Like the name isn't like the, the be all and end all. Like it can change as well. I'd also add one more thing is that I would always get a really good accountant. Because well, and I'm massively projecting my experience here, you know, maths and I imagine it's quite common in the world of therapists, but.

Katy & Hannah (40:07)

maths and, you know, accounts and that kind of boring side of business does not come naturally to lots of us. And so getting some help with that from the beginning. So you've got good systems is actually money really, really well spent. Absolutely. I would second that. And third, Get your money in order. Yeah, thank you. That was so wonderful. just.

Lauren (40:07)

maths and, you know, accounts and that kind of boring side of business does not come naturally to lots of us. And so getting some help with that from the beginning. So you've got good systems is actually money really, really well spent. Absolutely. I would second that. And third, yes. Get your money in order. Yeah, thank you. That was so wonderful. just.

Katy & Hannah (40:35)

that idea of following a path, but then being open to change and evolution. Because yeah, I think it's evident that we will inevitably change as people and as we learn more and grow more and connect with clients. Like you said, you didn't even intend to necessarily go into the fertility realm. And then was just like, that's who came to you. So you might be surprised by where you end up. So yeah, lead with that curiosity.

Lauren (40:35)

that idea of following a path, but then being open to change and evolution. Because yeah, I think it's evident that we will inevitably change as people and as we learn more and grow more and connect with clients. Like you said, you didn't even intend to necessarily go into the fertility realm. And then was just like, that's who came to you. So you might be surprised by where you end up. So yeah, lead with that curiosity.

Katy & Hannah (41:04)

Is there anything else you'd like to share before we say our goodbyes? Not for my end. Well, I just want to thank you guys both for sticking with us. We had some technical difficulties at the top and it's just been such a gift to talk to both of you. You're such powerhouses in your own realms. And I feel like I've learned a lot and I hope our listeners do as well.

Lauren (41:04)

Is there anything else you'd like to share before we say our goodbyes? Not for my end. Well, I just want to thank you guys both for sticking with us. We had some technical difficulties at the top and it's just been such a gift to talk to both of you. You're such powerhouses in your own realms. And I feel like I've learned a lot and I hope our listeners do as well.

Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us as a duo. Of course, anytime.

Katy & Hannah (41:31)

Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us as a duo. Of course, anytime.

Thank you so much for listening!

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Episode 23: Why Humour Belongs in Fertility Work, with Katy Ewen & Hannah Pearn

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Episode 23: Why Humour Belongs in Fertility Work, with Katy Ewen & Hannah Pearn

Resources and Links:

Thank you so much for listening!

Episode 22: The Real Reasons You're Not Marketing Yourself: A Bumper Solstice Episode

Our Mission

to empower facilitators across the globe with the knowledge that their client’s menstrual cycle is a gift — and one they can work with, rather than against.

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Created lovingly by Senna Studio

© CYCLE COACH SCHOOL 2026 Privacy Policy|Terms & Conditions